Dick Schaetzel
Dick Schaetzel has lived on Bear Creek since 1996. His home property in the Woodinville area straddles the creek where it has enough gradient to cause riffles and create good spawning ground, which Dick has protected over the years. He has allowed county workers to monitor stream health, participated in their surveys of fish and mussels in the creek, and has also worked with Wild Fish Conservancy on fish research. He was an active member of WaterTenders, serving on the Board in numerous positions over the years from 1992 to 2015 and is currently a docent at Tom Murdock’s Northwest Stream Center.
In this interview, Dick describes his home on Bear Creek and his experience over the years, working in conservation groups and volunteering for various monitoring programs. Note that Dick was not asked questions about the early, pre-modern period, but he was asked supplementary questions about land conservation programs and the rehabilitation projects on Lower Bear Creek.
Narrator: Dick Schaetzel
Date: May 24, 2020
Interviewed by: Gary Smith
Place: Dick’s Home
Transcript:
Gary Smith: Okay buddy, we’re ready to start. Can you give your name and tell me when you first moved here?
Dick Schaetzel: Uh, name is Dick Schaetzel. And, the Woodinville, Washington on Bear Creek, and, moved here in, on the creek in 1996.
GS: And how well preserved was Bear Creek back then?
Time Stamp: 0’25” describing the wild nature of Upper Bear Creek
DS: Um, it was, it was pretty wild looking and that, actually had remained so, maybe, possibly even more wild now then what it was then only because, um, there hasn’t been a lot of development on the river. King County has bought a number of properties. I know we’ve saved (?) two or three developments that WaterTenders (?) was involved with, so ...
GS: So, stick with your property for a minute. Uh, literally what would you say has changed on your property?
DS: Um, well it’s interesting that some hydrologic dynamics interesting. Um, trees occasionally fall down across the creek, in the creek, they might be there for a year or two and then a flood comes through and washes the, the, um, the logs away, um, it’s... I find the most interesting thing that what other people on the creek have also mentioned, is the actual, um stream bank changes. It varies a little bit, just like a larger river will change course, you know, it’s, it’s a smaller creek, but it, I’ve seen it change, and ...
GS: On your land?
DS: On our, on my land, and particularly just south of where we’re sitting, there’s a, um, island and typically, um, more faced on the right hand side is the main channel and there’s a smaller channel on the left, left side of the island and for a couple years it totally reversed because the right side was blocked with debris from fallen trees from a past storm, um, and then when that got washed away a couple years later it went back to the main channel again, so it, it does move back and forth, which I think is pretty cool.
GS: Um, during these uh, flood events, uh, would it scour the stream bed as well?
DS: Scour it?
GS: Yeah, I’m thinking of how it might affect ...
DS: Oh, yeah, uh ...
GS: salmon, and mussels and whatever.
DS: Yeah. It does, um, number one is there’s a lot of algae and tannin (?) in the creek, so, you’re looking down on the, the rocks and gravel and cobble, it’s a darker color, but after a flood they’re turned over and all of a sudden its ... you, you can see clean rock on the bottom, you know, they’ve flipped over, so it’s, it cleans the bottom, um, and there’s times like this, um, this winter, one of a couple of times where the water is run... going through so fast from a flood that you can hear rocks bouncing against each other, so... And I know it’s washed out some salmon fry in the past.
GS: Now, okay, that’s probably natural, but what, what do you think ... has it gotten, uh, more flashy, these, these flooding events, have they gotten maybe worse just because of development in ... upstream from you, or not?
DS: No, I don’t think so, I think in the time we’ve been here every couple of years or so, there’s some heavy flooding, you know maybe uh, a big snow event and then it melts and then a lot of rain and it comes through. The water really gets dirty so you can’t ... it’s not clear, um, but I don’t see it happening any more than in the past. Uh, the nice thing around here and I’m sure elsewhere, I know elsewhere, because I know the stream pretty well, is, there’s some wetlands along the way and low area, so, instead of staying right in the channel scouring, the water spreads out into the wetlands. I got a, just, on my property there’s kind of a wetland area, and it just widens out into that area, um, and so I think it helps the river from scouring, so it’s a valid point why wetlands next to a stream are critical, so
GS: Uh, I don’t know how closely you’ve looked at that, that wetland, but would you guess, or have you even seen salmon fry down in there?
DS: Uh, no, because it, it, the wetland kind of dries out ...
GS: Oh.
DS: ... it doesn’t totally dry it, it’s kind of mucky, it, it’s muck in the summertime, so there won’t, there won’t be fry in there. But I see ‘em down here often, no, I see some coho.
GS: Fry??
DS: Coho fry. Yeah.
GS: Oh, really? Nice.
DS: Yeah.
GS: Okay. Next question. When did you become aware of restoration efforts on Bear Creek?
DS: Uh, (clears throat) I think I was aware of that a couple of years after I moved here, but ...
GS: Late nineties then?
DS: Uh... Early nineties. It was before I moved to the creek. So it’s probably in like ’92 or so. Yeah.
GS: And uh, what was your role either as an observer or a participant in this restoration work?
DS: Um, yeah, there was a lot of plantings going on, um, on different restoration sites. I think I first started doing some of the plantings on um, Sammamish River down in Woodinville, (clears throat) and this county, county and the city was involved in some of that, and then from there realized that there was work on Bear Creek, so I thought well I’m closer to Bear Creek ...
GS: How close are you, Dick?
DS: Right now?
GS: Yeah.
DS: Well, let’s put it this way: I’m close enough now that I could probably spit down to the creek
GS: (laughs)
DS: .. and they wouldn’t allow this house on here any longer.
GS: Yeah, you’ve been grandfathered, uh, I guess it’s hard to know exactly, but wouldn’t you say twenty, thirty feet?
DS: From the edge of the deck?
GS: No, no. Well, I’m thinking from the footprint of your house.
DS: From the, from the house, well, probably thirty feet, probably something like that.
GS: So you started out, kind of as a, uh, aware of what was going on on Sammamish River and then you thought, “well, here I am on Bear Creek,” so how do you get going on Bear Creek activities?
DS: I, um, I think through the Woodinville Weekly I saw an article about Watertenders, which had just, maybe they were like a year or two old, maybe, I’m guessing (clears throat) and figure I’ll just sit in on one of their meetings and see what they’re about, um, and so I did, went to a meeting, and kind of liked the idea of, of what they were up to, uh, both educational, restoration projects, um, and so I got involved with Watertenders at that time, and they, they were concentrating on Bear Creek, so I just went more Watertenders. It seemed more relevent to me.
GS: You want to talk more about Watertenders or not?
DS: That’s fine.
GS: Did enough?
DS: Yeah, no ...
GS: More?
DS: We can talk more if you want.
GS: Okay. Uh, when did you become an officer in the organization?
DS: oh, I, I, (laughs) you’re, I knew you were going to ask me dates and I’m horrible at dates. I have no idea.
GS: So you started in ’92, would it be ten years later?
DS: Ohh, no, I probably started in ’94.... or so ... I’m guessing, I don’t know.
GS: That’s fine, that’s fine.
DS: Um .... an officer? I don’t know, in the early , in the early 2000’s probably, 2000, 2001, 1999, I don’t know.
GS: So you were secretary maybe, or treasurer?
DS: I was ... I was just a board member.
GS: But later you became an officer, What, what do you remember?
DS: Uh.... Later I became president.
GS: Okay.
DS: After Kerry resigned her duties then I took over as president.
GS: And what would that have been, roughly.
DS: Oh Gary, don’t ask me questions, don’t ask me dates ... (laughs)
GS: Two thousand ten, or later?
DS: I don’t know, I’m horrible at dates.
GS: Ten years ago ...
DS: Ten years ago.
GS: At least, at least.
DS: At least. At least.
GS: Okay. Okay. Uh, over that time say from ’94 to ... even now, uh, how did the membership grow, did, did it start, obviously it starts small, how, what do you remember on ...
Time Stamp: 9’55” describing the WaterTender organization
DS: It started small, and it stayed pretty small, ‘cause it’s tough, uh, a small non-profit getting people interested, continue to be interested in that its... We had some people come and go, and then there were some life-long members, and so forth.
GS: Well, what were the solid core members, like under a hundred?
DS: Oh, yeah. Uh, for members, I’d say twenty.
GS: And, uh, membership overall, like a mailing list membership ...
DS: Well, um, maybe thirty or forty at the most. Maybe. Now, we had a, a larger mailing because we did a newsletter.
GS: Right.
DS: And, we sent that out free to everybody that lived on Bear Creek. And we would send out semi-annual newsletters, let people know what’s going on in their watershed. Uh, both for educational purposes and also hope that we would recruit and get some people interested in, in working in their watershed.
GS: So that was several hundred people then.
DS: Uh, yeah, it was, (noise) uh, geez I used to take that thing down, take it down to the post office a couple times a year, two hundred and fifty, three hundred people, um, but it didn’t result in a lot of membership. And typically if, if someone became a member a lot of times it was because they had a particular interest in an issue right in their neighborhood and once it was resolved or bypassed by us then they’d disappear, so ...
GS: So, uh, one of the activities I know was uh, trying to get people down to see returning salmon. What can you say about, what do you know about that program?
Time Stamp: 12’00” on the WaterTender program for “Meet the Salmon,” later “Salmon Season”
DS: Oh, Meet the Salmon? That was a real success. That was probably the biggest interest and the largest group of people that would come down when the salmon were running in the fall. Um, we’d um, we had signs out on the road directing people to come on down, and, and uh, yeah, it was very successful. You’d get a couple hundred people down there, uh, and we would have watertenders on a station down there to explain what fish they were seeing, the importance of salmon, the importance of the, the riparian zone, um, so it was, it was very, probably our most successful.
GS: Would that be two hundred people in a day, or a weekend, or what?
DS: Uh, sometimes it ... I’d say it was a weekend but we would do it multiple weekends, so, we got a lot of people. It was, it was busy. And their access to the creek was on the Tolt pipeline and there’s (?) continue especially when we were going to be on site. Typically we were there for four hours at a time and it was very busy then, when we advertised that we would be there.
GS: Do you know, uh... it was later called Salmon Season. Do you know any connection between those two programs?
DS: Called Salmon Season ... oh yeah, that was a lot, wider, Tony, um, no I think it was ... the county did the ... they had their viewing areas and they wanted to advertise and they knew that we were up here doing our thing, so, um, they just added us all to the list of Salmon Season.
GS: How long did the program last if you count the time from the Meet the Salmon all the way through Salmon Season ... I don’t think it’s going on any more, but, how many years would that have been?
DS: Oh, I betcha we did that for, maybe a couple decades almost. Fifteen years, twenty years?
GS: So, um, any other activities you want to mention? I mean work parties? Meet the Salmon ...
DS: With, uh, with Watertenders?
GS: Yes.
Time Stamp: 14’20” on WaterTender activities
DS: Uh, well, I know Watertenders did a lot of restoration sites, uh, pulling invasive weeds and some of the ... typically we worked in uh, the King County open space properties, to, um, eradicate invasives, uh, and plantings, tree plantings, shrub plantings, so forth. Um, that, that was a pretty good turn out there as well and then uh, educational aspect through the newsletter, um, when Watertenders was, was first organized, before I became on, on board, they actually had some demo kits that they went to some of the um um, grade schools and presented that part of their biology classes.
GS: Was that Salmon in the Classroom or something else?
DS: Um, no, it wasn’t the Salmon... they did a lot of hydrology, and how water works, and so forth, uh, between rain and, and evaporation and water flowing in the stream and so forth.
GS: Aside from, uh, membership dues, was there any fundraising?
DS: Yeah, there was a little bit. Uh, it was all voluntary. We ... during the newsletter we asked for, for donations, uh, Meet the Salmon we usually had a jar out there for donations, um, grants were .... we were gifted grants occasionally to help pay our way, um ...
GS: Well grants were supposed to be no overhead. What were the ... what was the purpose of the money if you had extra money?
DS: Uh, plantings and the newsletter.
GS: Okay. Um, ever get involved in any lawsuits, I mean as a suing party, for pres... you know, for preservation.
Time Stamp: 17’00” WaterTender legal appeals over proposed tennis club on Granston property
DS: I don’t know lawsuits, there was appeals. Um, there were three appeals through Watertenders that I recall. One was just upstream here a little ways where (clears throat) a ... developer on a questionable piece of property as far as being buildable wanted to put in a multi-plex in a single family residential neighborhood and we appealed that, and won and, uh, once that dissolved, county came in afterwards actually and purchased that property as open space property. So that was nice. The Granston property was another one ...
GS: How do you spell that?
DS: Granston? G-R-A-N-S-T-O-N?
GS: Okay.
DS: Granston?
GS: Okay
DS: That may not be right, but, uh, that was down on Bear Creek Road, again a, a nice residential area. Uh, this was uh, twenty, twenty acres? Twenty to thirty acres were, I think it’s twenty, were ... they wanted to bring in a private tennis complex which does not fit in the neighborhood (clears throat) and they would’ve, they wanted to build a bridge across Bear Creek so that they could use... there’s ten acres, ten acres on each side of the creek (clears throat). It just didn’t work at all. And so we appealed that one and that also won, and that’s now open space property with King County as well.
GS: But those were administrative actions, they weren’t court actions.
DS: Correct.
GS: So you mentioned the Meet the Salmon, what else, and those individual uh, property, uh, appeals, what else would be a big success of it, it, in your mind?
Time Stamp: 18’25” WaterTender success in environmental education and community outreach
DS: I think the big success would be environmental education. I mean there’s so many people that just don’t understand the importance of our riparian quarter on the stream, um, buffer zone, uh ... So many people live here a number of years they didn’t even know there were salmon in the stream and the importance of salmon, so, and they’d come down for Meet the Salmon. They were just blown away by what they saw, and “geez I’ve been here twenty years and I never knew they were in here” so, and it’s a good time to teach ‘em about the importance of salmon and, and keeping things as pristine as possible, so I think that’s ... the educational aspect was really important
GS: Um. Any failures in Watertenders work?
Time Stamp: 19’17” about the failures or shortcomings of WaterTenders
DS: Uh, well I think we could have done a lot more if we had more people, and some fresh, fresh people. It was hard to get young people involved. That’s probably the biggest failure, is, is recruitment. We could have got, done a lot more with younger people, new faces, new ideas. That, that didn’t work.
GS: How ‘bout a future role for Watertenders? What do you see, if any?
DS: Uh, well, they’re kind of ... not around too much. They are a name, but not an action. I’d, I... somebody would have to be pretty, uh ... I just don’t see it right now. No.
GS: So aside from Watertenders were there any other NGO’s non-government organizations that you saw or worked with on Bear Creek?
DS: Um ... I’ve worked with the county.
GS: How about Cortera (?)
DS: Uh, a little bit. Not a lot. I’ve talked to them and so forth. They’ve had ... they’ve done some work on the creek. They’ve asked if I want to be involved with my property when they’re getting rid of invasives and, um, but, no I haven’t dealt with a lot.
GS: How about Adopt-a-Stream?
Time Stamp: 20’50” referring to Adopt-a-Stream Foundation’s project at Friendly Village
DS: Yeah, they’re involved a little bit down here and actually Watertenders, um, gave them some money to use at, in, down in (?) village for rechanneling the creek and putting woody debris in. And they’ve done some work there, um, and then they went through ownership change and it was kind of put on hold, but ...
GS: The uh, the property did?
DS: Yeah.
GS: Yeah.
DS: But now, as last I have heard, um, Adopt-a-Stream’s are coming back in this summer, to finish a project there. So...
GS: So, going back to the work of county’s, did... is ... is Snohomish county even relevant to the history of Bear Creek as far as you know here?
DS: Not down here. It pretty much it divides at the county line, and they’re ... they do some work north, (clears throat), um, up in um, Paradise Valley area, Paradise Valley contribution area.
GS: Yeah, what do you, what do you know about that? Uh. It’s a big area.
DS: It’s a huge area. Um, we, on that side along the creek (clears throat) it’s gated, um, because it is, some people living back beyond that area, so it’s gated and you need a code to get in, residence, but we’d been able to get in there through Watertenders group too. Get rid of invasives and so forth, so, um ...
GS: And there are a couple public areas as well, right?
DS: Yes, yeah.
GS: A little switch in, uh, topic, but in the same area we’re talking about, uh, essentially Snohomish county, do you know of any pioneer families up in there, that maybe homesteaders or bought from homesteaders, uh, large acreage?
DS: Well, I’ve met some of the Lloyds, uh, before they gave it to Paradise Valley contribution area, um, I met one of the Lloyds in their original log cabin which is still there. (clears throat) Um, but now it’s just, a, a meeting with a number of people when that process was going on. I didn’t really deal with them other than to meet them and we had a few words. (coughs) And then um, Shirley Doolittle, on, on um, Paradise Lake. She’d been there for a number of generations.
GS: Anybody, uh, that might have been a long time owner downstream from you, maybe around the Tolt pipeline area?
DS: Uh, yeah, you know years ago, I don’t know how many more, I met him a couple of times, don’t remember the name. Years ago, (clears throat) King County let citizen volunteers (clears throat) walk the stream and help count salmon, and, and the reds in the fall, and so there was a, a couple mile section that my wife and I used to walk (clears throat) and, this one piece of property we went through, uh, met the owners when we went through, and he was, he was living in the same house when he grew up in, his parents had passed away, he was living there, but he was talking about playing in the creek when he was a kid, and, (laughs) it was kinda fun to listen to him cause I had mentioned that, “geez, I see some fresh water mussels on your property and he goes, “yeah, you know as a kid, we didn’t know much about ‘em, but there was so many of ‘em that my buddy and I would come out here and we would pick ‘em up and we’d skip ‘em, we’d skip the, the fresh water mussels like they were flat rocks.” He said, “we did that all the time. There was so many you didn’t even think about it.” (laughs) So, it’s fun to hear that there were so many mussels at that time in the creek.
GS: Did he, uh, say it went back any further than his parents?
DS: Uh, he didn’t mention, yeah, I don’t think it went, went beyond that.
GS: Okay.
DS: And looking at the house it looks like a house that was from the fifties.
GS: Oh, okay.
DS: ... built in the fifties or something.
GS: There’s another fellow you know down there, right on the Tolt pipeline, uh, who’s helped out with Watertenders. How long has he been there?
DS: Barney?
GS: Barney, yeah.
DS: Barney’s been there, oh, oh he must ... he must have been there twenty years if not more, I don’t know.
GS: So, it doesn’t go back too far now. Okay. Okay, another shift, uh... Let’s see if I can expand your mind a little bit. Looking at the whole watershed, and I’m going to exclude Evans Creek and I’m going to exclude Sammamish River at least, uh, south of Bear Creek. I’m looking at Bear Creek Watershed. What, uh, what’s your picture of that based on... as a natural land feature, as a natural environment?
DS: Not quite sure what you’re asking on that. Well, what do I think about it?
GS: Well,
DS: In what regard ...
GS: How do you picture ... it’s a creek running through your property. If you expand that out what’s the biggest sort of picture you have of it as a natural system and, you can focus on salmon if you want in terms of how they are sustained in the, in the river system, or you could look at freshwasher mussels how they’ve changed over the years in that, in that whole system...
Time Stamp: 27’25” for quote “. . .so it’s pretty depressing to see the downward trend of the salmon”
DS: I can talk about that. A couple things. Couple changes, uh, looking at the overall parts of the system, is, two big changes is, um, when we first moved in here twenty years ago, every fall we’d have a big party on our back deck here, and we would walk from our old, we’d have our own welcome the salmon. And there would be so many salmon down in the creek that people were just giddy, they were just everywhere, and they were just splashing and making redds. We’d see Chinook, and that time of year it’s Chinook and Sockeye and they’d be all over, and uh, and at night you could hear them going through our, making redds, and I remember Mary and I would just, especially when we ... the first years we did that, moved here, we would just giggle. It was so fun to listen to ‘em in the middle of the night. We’d wake up in the middle of night and like “there’s another one making a redd!” (laughs). It was really cool. Um, and we did, uh the meet the salmon thing for, or welcome the salmon parties here for about ... ehh, ten years or so, and then there just ended up being less and less salmon every year coming up, whereas the last three years I haven’t seen any redds being made, uh, and I might see just a couple salmon and that’s it. Um, so it’s, it’s pretty depressing to see the uh, the downward, downward trend of, of the salmon.
GS: Well, I’m not going to ask you to explain why that is, but uh, you’ve already said that the area upstream hasn’t been degraded much. What about the area downstream?
Time Stamp: 29’25” about improvements on the creek
DS: Uh, degraded. You know ... actually, I mean there has always been some degradation before I moved in with homes along the creek and, and yards that went right up to the creek, but I think, um, there’s been improvement. Uh, City of Redmond with the uh, improvements they did right around Redmond Town Center, um, that’s that’s really improved a lot. Um, hasn’t happened yet, but they’re talking, uh, improving Keller Farm which was supposed to happen this summer. That’ll improve. And, between the county buying a number of properties along the creek, uh, and I think a better awareness of people living on the creek, I don’t think it’s degrading anymore. I’m really hopeful in that respect.
GS: So you wouldn’t put that salmon decline on the local conditions?
DS: Um ... Not as much. Um, how well the riparian zone, I think on Bear Creek is a 150 foot buffer on either side, um, and just beyond that it’s still in part ... and, and there’s still people that are cutting trees down, canopy, um, beyond, beyond the, uh riparian zone, there’s still, um, there’s degradation in that respect, yes, so, and that’s an issue. This, runoff issue, road runoff, that’s, that’s a big issue. (Coughs). That’s a huge issue and I don’t know how you tackle that one. But right on the creek, uh, I think it’s been protected pretty well. (indecipherable)
GS: So again I’m going to ask you again about the picture of Bear Creek in your mind. Do you see a dividing line of any sort between upstream and downstream, and how do you picture ... I’ll call it upper Bear Creek and lower Bear creek?
DS: Well I guess the dividing line would be density of homes and people, population, uh, Snohomish County (clears throat) there’s a lot of land owners that have a lot of property. Um, and fewer homes and closer to the Sammamish River conjunction lot of homes, especially when you get in to Redmond. I mean, uh, and uh, urban growth boundary when you get out of the west side of Avondale, um, there are multi-family homes, and impervious surfaces (coughs) that’s a problem, so in that regard yeah, that, that’s an issue for Bear Creek. Definitely more pristine as you go, uh, closer to the source of Bear Creek.
GS: You ever been up near the headwaters any where that you could call headwaters?
Time Stamp: 33’04” referring to Bear Creek headwaters north of Paradise Lake near Quinn’s Crossing
DS: Uh, yes I have, yeah.
GS: How would you describe that area?
DS: Uh, woods.
GS: Is it north of Paradise Lake?
DS: It is north of Paradise Lake. It’s north of um, Paradise Valley Conservation Area. It’s ... the headwaters is actually (clears throat) some springs and so forth where (coughs), excuse me, um, Quinn’s Crossing there .. they were going to do that.
GS: How do you spell Quinn?
DS: Q-U-I-N-N
GS: Oh yeah.
DS: Quinn’s Crossing was a development that they were putting in, and actually it’s another thing that Watertenders appealed, only partially won that one, but, um, water, water aquifer issue up in that area. (Clears throat) Um, but, very few homes. Lot of woods. Um, pretty clean up there. It’s a nice area.
GS: It probably wasn’t one particular spot that ... but what did you see coming out of the ground as a source of Bear Creek?
DS: Oh you know I don’t know if I seen the actual source bubbling out of the ground, but its supposed to be a wetland up there and spring fed. Uh, and that’s why Bear Creek down here in the summer it slows down considerably, but, there’s always a steady, constant flow. Um, and it’s I think it’s an aquifer spring fed going in to Paradise Lake and then out down through here, so ...
GS: So there’s also a, an aquifer that supposedly feeds even colder water, uh and has that name, uh, what do you want to say about that source?
Time Stamp: 34’50” referring to Cold Creek feeding into Cottage Lake Creek, drawing Chinook salmon
DS: That’s pretty cool, that’s over, that’s, um, Cold Creek feeds in to, um Cottage Lake Creek, um, and I think that keeps Cottage Lake Creek about five degrees cooler than Bear Creek typically, and when the salmon were running with Chinook, you’d find, uh, there’s more Chinook up Cottage Lake Creek than Bear Creek, and uh, so that’s, uh, the critical source and of course eventually it will help cool Bear Creek as well. And that’s, that’s in the protected area, so that’s good. That’s part of the Basset pond, Merikesh Farm area. It’s protected.
GS: If I were gonna, uh, find out more about that, uh, subbasin, who would I talk to about Cold Creek and Crystal Lake?
DS: Oh, I think maybe uh, some of the King County people, they’ve been in there a number of times.
GS: Any residents you can think of?
DS: Terry’s been in there. I’ve been back in there. Um, yeah, and the water’s cold. You can go there in the middle of summer, and of course it’s shaded, um, but it’s, it’s cold water.
GS: Uh, anybody else you think might be a good source to interview?
DS: Hmm. Um, let me think of long time ... long time residents. No, not any longer.
GS: Okay you’ve mentioned County people, uh, I know some of them, uh, but what about some of these uh, County projects I’ll call ‘em, uh, just tell me what you think is available if I go to these sources Upper Bear Creek Community Plan, is that an active thing?
DS: Community Counsel?
GS: Is there a counsel?
DS: There’s an Upper Bear Creek Community Counsel.
GS: Is that still active?
DS: I don’t know. You know I’m not sure if they’re still active or not. They used to be, they used to meet up at um, the Woodinville Water District building.
GS: Is that when they had, uh, speaker programs?
DS: Um ... yeah, a speaker program. But we did, Watertenders used to meet there and have speaker programs
GS: Oh. Okay.
DS: That’s probably what you’re thinking of. (Coughs)
GS: How, how often did they have speakers up, well, Watertender Speaker program ...
DS: Um ... we tried to get, we tried to get somebody at least yearly up there, um, to talk about various aspects. You know, fresh water mussels, salmon, riparian zones, septic systems ... Um, we had a number of meetings up there. We’d actually pull in quite a few people.
GS: Um, back in the 1990’s there was something called The Basin Plan. Were you familiar with that?
DS: I was never involved in working on the Basin Plan.
GS: How ‘bout the fish habitat task force in the 90s?
DS: No.
GS: Waterways 2000?
DS: That was kind of before my time being involved.
GS: And then ...
DS: But Terry and Ray Heller that passed, ? Stuart, he was extremely involved, uh, in those aspects, so, he might be a good person to contact.
GS: And what was the County volunteer work that you did, the work parties, clearing brush, but stream work.
DS: Uh, they’ve done (clears throat), um, I’m trying to think how many different ones I’ve done. King County, they did, uh, it’s about five years ago, they’re looking at, uh, checking on amount of fish, type of fish in Bear Creek. Um, and it was in conjunction with, uh, meeting state water quality standards. And so, they had a number of spots where they were doing, um, fish electrode studies. And, one of the spots was ... I donated ... er I didn’t donate, I suggested they use my property so they could come in whenever they wanted to, um, and had easy access to the creek and I helped them with that, with the project out there, uh, netting and identifying the fish and so forth. That was a lot of fun. Um, with Department of Ecology, uh, been a number of years ago, ten, fifteen years ago, I helped them set a number of electronic culbos (?) uh, where they’re checking waterflow, temperature, so forth, and we were, we were throughout the Bear Creek Watershed, and down actually into, um, around Fall City area doing some work down there as well. So, oh, maybe it’s Evans Creek area, it was beyond Evans Creek.
GS: So it wasn’t in the Bear Creek Watershed?
DS: It was beyond. It was beyond, but also, also Bear Creek as well.
GS: Oh ...
DS: We did Evans Creek, we did, uh, um lower Bear Creek, the whole, the whole [?]. Um, another project ... through Watertenders paid for (clears throat), uh, research on why the freshwater mussels, uh, were apparently dying in Bear Creek, so through our grants we had like a, I think it was a three year study, uh as to what was happening with the sal... er the mussels, so I was directly involved with, uh, the people running the study, out caging mussels and finding mussel beds in Bear Creek, um, and then going back and pulling the mussels out and doing studies on them.
GS: So Watertenders helped fund it but somebody else ran the program?
DS: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean it was, it was so scientific that we were incapable of doing that. So it was it was, it was at the point that there was uh, studies of we were looking at temperatures, the different chemistry in the water, um, they actually um, after the mussels were in the stream for a year we’d collect them and they would actually do biopsies on the mussels that were caged to see what had changed, uh, what they may have ingested chemically, toxicity, so forth, so ...
GS: Do you think this was a county program?
DS: No this was a Watertenders program.
GS: Oh, but you hired scientists?
DS: We hired scientists, yeah.
GS: ... and when was that roughly. Come on Dick. (both laugh)
DS: Dates don’t work for me. Late, mid, late 90’s I’d say.
GS: Oh! And then you also did some TMDO work, and you might explain what that is and where you did it.
DS: Yeah, I did that. Now which, which one was that one? Uh, oh! That was, that was the Department of Ecology.
GS: Okay.
DS: Same time we were doing the hoboes{?}
GS: Different project, but roughly the same time.
DS: Yeah.
GS: And what is, explain it with some ...
DS: Total Daily, Total Daily Maximum Load.
GS: Okay. And what do you do? You put, you put something in the water.
DS: Put something in the water. A the hobo, it wasn’t with the hobo issue.
GS: It was bound up together with that.
DS: Yeah, it was bound up with the hobo issue.
GS: Okay. And where was it?
DS: Um, it was on Lower Bear Creek, it was on uh, not Griffin Creek, uh ...
GS: [?] Quarter property?
DS: No no, no. It was on the, on Redmond-Fall City Road.
GS: Oh. So it may not have been Bear Creek.
DS: It wasn’t in Bear Creek.
GS: Okay, okay. You haven’t done any work in [?] Quarter?
DS: No.
GS: Okay, well I think we’re about done.
Time Stamp: 44’20” for quote “. . . a lot of good things going on here”
DS: So, I guess, I, just a quick review, I mean a lot of good things going on here with the County working in here, um, the dynamics of the creek is really fun to watch from year to year to year, um, and then there’s disappointments, the reduction of salmon, the reduction of fresh water mussels which are also important to the stream ...
GS: They’re pretty much gone, aren’t they?
DS: There are still some around, but, um, fewer and fewer. Um, and then, they’re really important ...
GS: Why
Time Stamp: 44’46” for quote on freshwater mussels as “the canary in the coal mine”
DS: Because (clears throat) they’re kind of like the canary in the coal mine. Number one, they’re filter feeders so they help keep the stream cleaner, but they’re also very succeptible to toxins, and so, and um, it doesn’t take much to kill ‘em, so if there’s an issue going on, uh, toxicity-wise, they’ll let you know. When we did a three year study that Watertenders paid for, we never did have a result, unfortunately. We don’t know what was killing the mussels. Uh, we couldn’t study absolutely every chemical issue, toxicity issue, out there cause it was just prohibitively expensive to do that. We picked some of the major ones and that didn’t seem to be the issue. Water temperature didn’t seem to be the issue. Um, silting didn’t seem to be an issue. It was, that was a suspect, but, um,
GS: How about little boys skipping mussels on the water?
DS: (Laughs.) That was an issue. Anyways. No. There’s good and bad things, but it’s a beautiful place to live.
GS: You’re right about that. thank you very much, Dick.
DS: Well you’re welcome.
END SIDE ONE
GS: Testing. Testing. At Dick Schaetzel’s house. What date is it Dick?
DS: Uh, 3-16, I believe.
GS: March 16 ...
DS: 2021.
GS: 2021. Round two.
both laugh
GS: So Dick, we’ve gone over the basics, but, and I love this place here at your place, but, we never got into the conservation easement or whatever it is you have on the property.
DS: Oh, uh, okay, I thought we did a little bit, but ...
GS: ... a little bit.
DS: Uh, it’s yeah, it’s uh, all the uh, um, Public Benefit Ratings System which is part of King County’s program to put properties of value, um, environmental, um habitat value, um, into a program such that at least for the PBRS, Public Benefit Ratings System, um, we’re required that we do not develop the property that is within the easement, and so, (clears throat) except for our home and our yard, that’s not in the easement, we have a little under two acres, um ...
GS: Total.
DS: Total. And so all that in the easement, except for the yard and the home. And so, it was at ten [?] ..and it was a no brainer for us because when we moved here in ’96 we had no desire to develop any of it and it was, they were really promoting it hoping more people’d get on board ‘cause it was kind of a new program at that time.
GS: What year? You, you remember that date.
DS: It was in ’96.
GS: ’96, when they, they had already started the program. Okay.
DS: Yeah, they had ... but it was new, and, a lot of people were suspicious of it, they were like, “what’s this mean? What are my restrictions? What am I not going to be able to do?” um... So they were promoting it heavily and usually it cost money to get in to the program for the survey, the survey of the property to see the value of it. Um, for us, in the early ... people that entered the program, they paid for all that, and so it was, uh, it was no application fee for us at all. (Clears throat). They probably pretty much did the application for us. But at that time I think it’s still true, is um, you sign in for a um, I think it was a ten year commitment. Um, and, so you, what it is you have a tax credit on, on the land. It, you can get out after ten years, but then you pay, um, accrued, um, tax, on the property, plus interest. So there’s an incentive not to. After ten years you can bail out at any time and there’s no accrued interest or back taxes on the property. Um, and we’ve been in it since ’96 and there’s no reason not to. And it’s really nice, it really saves on taxes. So, it’s a good deal.
GS: Have you heard of any other such programs, uh, the one I was wondering about was Open Space Program that the county has, have you heard of that one?
DS: Well, they have Open Space, um, they have agricultural areas, they have uh forestry easements and so forth, so there’s a number of ‘em. I think on Bear Creek most of the, there might be some forestry, most of the properties are in the PBRS, I know a lot of people on Bear Creek that are in that program. Um, so the idea is to protect the habitat and, um, for us here it was um, habi.. being Bear Creek’s a, a salmon bearing stream, because the salmon it’s a wildlife corridor, so you see a lot of wildlife through here, passing through, and staying, um, and I think an aquifer issue as well, so, we got, you get so many points for so many different criteria, and we got, we got the maximum, um, we, we pretty much qualified for most, so we got, we were getting 50% off our taxes.
GS: Nice.
DS: On the land, that’s in this program...
GS: There was another Watertender, now deceased, named Wendy Walsh, not, not too far from here. She had a different kind of a conservation program. Can you say anything about that?
DS: Yeah, I know a little bit about that. Not a lot, but she ... has a large piece of property, um, north of the Woodinville-Duvall, Woodinville-Duvall Road, and, um, she wanted, um, I think originally she wanted uh Nature Conservancy to protect the property, eventually it would go to them after she passed away, and, it wasn’t, didn’t meet their, the standards that they were looking for, so, um, if I recall correctly, she had the Humane Society actually gave her an easement in there, and I think that had to do with the fact that she had, one time she had horses, and she had goats and sheep there, so there’s some correlation with that, and then, I, I’m not sure of this, but I think um, that it went to an easement went to somebody else, uh, that would have a better protection on the property, but I’m not sure about that, that’s ...
GS: That’s a good start on the story, uh, I’ll find more details about it.
DS: I know, I know she’s passed away now, and her daughter’s living on the property.
GS: Okay.
DS: Um, so it’s still in the family, but most, most of that area is protected.
GS: So going on about Watertenders, uh, either before or after you became president, uh, but in the last twenty years let’s say, what was the biggest issue, that you knew about on Bear Creek?
DS: Uh, one of the biggest ones was, that, before I became president, and then, continuing while I was president, and after, was the fresh water mussel studies that we um, paid for and got grants for, and that’s, uh, the um, um, western pearl shell, um, [?] were dying off, um, in the stream, a pretty massive die outs, and there used to be a lot of fresh water mussels in this stream, but we could see die outs, and were were trying to figure out what was going, what were killing these mussels that were so critical to uh the stream health, so we had an early stages we had, um, at that time it was called, um, Washington Trout out of Duvall, um, they, they did a survey of a number of reaches in the stream to figure out where the mussels were now living ...
GS: Let me interrupt, uh, we talked about this last time, the, the short story is you never figured out why they were dying.
DS: That’s correct.
GS: So that story is kind of a mystery.
DS: It’s a mystery. And the problem, and it might still be a mystery, but we had limited resources, er, limited money to pay for everything we would have liked to, um, because eventually we paid for a caged mussel study, so where we put these mussels in different locations in the stream, and then unfortunately, uh, they were, they were killed and then biopsied and their tissues, we looked at different chemicals in the tissues that may have caused the issues, um, um, petroleum products and so forth. There was nothing, there was no, uh, big red flag that stuck out, that “this is the issue,” no smoking gun, so we don’t know.
GS: Yeah. So, moving downstream, well, actually the mussels were everywhere, but, uh, in Lower Bear Creek, what triggered your interest in restoring uh, the creek down near the confluence with the Sammamish?
DS: Well, actually I think that was, a combination of, something we, you and I did together, that [?]
GS: One second.
DS: Okay.
GS: Okay, keep going Dick.
Time Stamp: 56’05” referring to meeting with City of Redmond about widening SR-520
DS: Okay. (laughs) Okay. So, um, 520 was going to be widened, and, we had talked about it, not knowing what the, knowing it was going to be widened and there was going to be some of the creek getting too close to Bear Creek, er the road being too close to Bear Creek, but not really knowing what was happening. We knew it was a concern. And, you had gone out and taken some film of some flooding from some, some spring rains, or maybe it was fall, I don’t remember, but you showed how bad the flooding was, and then, and I don’t know if it was you, or if on my own, um, I got a copy of their plans, and I looked at, I looked at their blueprints, and saw that some of the road would be within 50 feet of Bear Creek, and I said, “this is wrong, ‘cause Bear Creek has got, is supposed to have a buffer of 150 feet.” So I was like, “this is, this is not right. The road is too close.” Plus they were going to be removing three and a half acres of wetlands, and chopping down a number of critical trees right along Bear Creek, and so I was like, “Oh, there’s something’s gotta be done.” So I think, actually you and I went to the city, and talked to them, and from there things kind of precipitated in to...
GS: Well there was a meeting also of a bunch of us with Wash DOT, uh Department of Transportation. What do you remember about that?
Time Stamp: 57’44” referring to meeting with Department of Transportation, arguing about SR-520 intruding on Bear Creek buffer
DS: Laughs. Yeah, I remember that one. I remember that real well. That was right in the Redmond City Hall. I think that after, um, Watertenders had a real interest and a concern about what was going on ...
GS: With the mayor..
DS: Yeah, yeah, with the mayor, and city council, and the Wash DOT came out and did a presentation to those interested parties, uh, and they had all sorts of boards up showing their nice, wonderful plans, and, and uh what they were gonna do, and uh, so as um, City of Redmond and you and I discussed, especially, I said, “hey, you know, you’re within fifty feet. What are you going to do about it?” And they basically said, “here are the plans and we’re not gonna change it.” And I was like, “no, this is not right. You can’t be within fifty feet of the creek.” Um, but they were adamant that they were NOT going to change any plans whatsoever. So, actually up to that point, it, it raised a lot of hairs on the back of a lot of people’s necks. I know Watertenders got in to a real, uh, letter writing campaign, um, I think to some of our, our local legislators, and uh, Redmond City Council,
GS: Governor ...
DS: The governor. Yeah, a letter to the governor. A letter to, uh, Billy Franks, Jr. down in the Nisqually, um, area, and, um, anyways, there was a lot of pressure I think put on with the letter writing campaign. There was a lot of letters that went out from Watertenders and other people that heard about it, and I think that put some pressure on, uh, people to get something done.
GS: To get something done, uh, there was another meeting, uh, also at city hall that you and I were at. Do you remember what happened, and I think this was in January 2008. Who was there, and any interaction with the citizens and the officials that were there?
Time Stamp: 1:00’00” referring to state legislators meeting with City of Redmond officials and citizens
Time Stamp: 1:01:50 for quote about moving Bear Creek away from SR-520: “I think there was enough pressure. . .”
DS: Well, you know, I get this visual (clears throat) that we were in this side conference room, um, down at City Hall, and it was packed, as I recall. I think there were people standing along the wall and so forth. All the tables were filled, all the chairs outside the, (?) the was filled. People were standing, and it was, um, council members, Watertenders, um, I think Dave Garland from Department of Ecology was there, uh, there was some legislators there, um, and everybody was in agreement that, that I recall, that something had to be done, um, with changing, um, the confluence of Bear Creek, and that was part of the deal back in the 90’s, um, stage 2 of Bear Creek was to meander it, right now, or at, at that time, it was in that channel that the Corps of Engineers had dug eons ago, and it was this straight channel that just had rifraf on the bottom, and it was a steep gradient, so it was bad for fish, no life really could live in it, and there was a plan to meander it, and stage one further upstream in Redmond they had completed and actually had done that, but stage two from that point to where it meets Sammamish River, um, Wash DOT just said they weren’t going to do it. So then there was the push that, “No, we need to meander, move the stream, meander it, get it out of that channel, and do a restoration project.” Which, in time, is exactly what happened. I think there was enough pressure from, and a lot of legislators were on board with this. I think they pushed heavily. So I think, I think, um, grassroots people uh, and organizations like Watertenders, and City of Redmond was on board, and legislators were on board, and I think that was enough pressure that Wash DOT came up with some money to finish that phase 2.
GS: You mention grassroots, uh, and there were some other groups, but, it seems to me that Watertenders was pretty special, and seemed to be spearheading that effort, uh, what was it about Watertenders, I mean, is it that it was a neighborhood association, or that it had a, an environmental focus on Bear Creek? What made them special in this, uh, effort?
Time Stamp: 1:02’43” quoting “I think WaterTenders had a good reputation.”
DS: Oh, I think Watertenders had a good reputation. We’d been around for a number of years. Uh, we’d worked with, um, an even before I was involved, Watertenders worked with uh, City of Redmond and King County both, um, and with programs, um, we’d do, um, restoration sites, clean up of some of the open space properties, uh, educational aspects, um, Meet the Salmon on um, county and Redmond city property, so we had a good reputation, uh, and there was some things that um, did some SEPA reviews sometimes, and put in our comments, and , when we fought when we thought we needed to, um, I think, I think, um, people realized that we’re there to do good for Bear Creek Watershed, and we were respected. And so, um, what we did um, held a lot of weight I believe.
GS: So that was the citizen part of it and you mentioned city was involved, uh, pushing for an improved, uh waterway for Bear Creek through there. County, uh, not so much that you know of?
DS: Nah, you know, I was just thinking that, that I didn’t say county but yes, they were pretty involved as well. They, they were all for it. They thought it was something that needed to be done and was necessary. So, the county was on board all the way.
GS: Okay. Good. Um. Moving upstream on Bear Creek, uh, what do you know about the, uh, the reach that goes through Keller Farm? Um, the City of Redmond acquired that property, oh I don’t know, five or six years ago, and what do you know about what’s happened in that area?
DS: Uh, I like (?) I’ve been kind of involved with Keller Farm for a number of years because, um, when Aegis was planning to fire them to add on to the retirement center. Um, I was involved with Watertenders at that point to try to reduce the size of Aegis’s property, uh, development I should say, because they were going out into the wetlands, and so actually we had this size of the Aegis development reduced a little bit, and the rest of the Keller Farm protected, so I kind of aware of that before hand, and what they’ve done now, um, with the um, site channels for um, juvenile salmon, um, and it’s, it’s, before it was just sitting idle, uh, just agriculture land not used any more, and now it’s, now it’s, uh, turning into a habitat for wildlife and salmon and it’s, it’s wonderful. It’s gonna be great. Plus the fact that it’s gonna help with the flooding, ‘cause it used to be almost every year, Keller lake over there flooded. And, and now, the flooding, there will be some high spots, but there’ll be some nice side channels for the juvenile salmon and other fish and wildlife, so it’s, it’s, it’s really great. It’s wonderful thing to have back on Bear Creek.
GS: So if you put those two together, uh, that is, Keller Farm and then the lower uh, reaches down to the Sammamish River, all of this is in, uh, City of Redmond. What’s the value of that to you as a resident up here in Upper Bear Creek?
Time Stamp: 1:07’30” observing salmon declining on his property and in Puget Sound generally
DS: Well, it’s all connected, I mean, um, if the habitat down there is protected and restored, it’s gonna affect what’s happening upstream as well as downstream. I mean, you always think, well, something upstream is going to affect downstream, but it works in both directions. And so, uh, as more salmon, or juvenile salmon and, in phase 2 of the restoration, there was some side channels as well for juvenile salmon to linger in, as they’re growing, um, with woody, arched woody debris to hide in, um, it, it affects the whole stream, so it’s just, um, more protection, more, more habitat, all the way up and down the stream, so, it’s, it’s very valuable.
GS: Well, put that all together then, what do you see the future of salmon on Bear Creek?
Both laugh.
DS: Well, you know, I got a hope for the best, but, there’s so many things affecting salmon. I’m not real hopeful, unfortunately. You know I’ve been her twenty some years, twenty five years and I’ve seen the decline in all species of salmon, right outside my backyard. Um, and unfortunately I don’t think I see a change in it. There’s just too much going on everywhere, and it’s not just, we’re doing what we can in our watershed, but, out in the oceans, and and uh, the pollution that’s getting in everywhere, it’s just, I, I’m not real, I don’t know. I’m not real hopeful. I’m hopeful, let’s put it that way, but, I don’t know if it’s going to be enough done soon enough to protect the salmon.
GS: That about covers it. Uh, this is kind of an after thought and we may not, uh, use this uh, at any point, but you had mentioned it before, um, there’s an area I believe, the, on Bear Creek owned by a family called Cranston, that years ago had proposed to build, or at least be bought and developed as a tennis court. Um, can you tell me a little more about that and uh, what happened to the project?
Time Stamp: 1:09’06” focusing on the Granston property proposed as a tennis club
DS: Yeah. They, I think some neighbors got wind of the Granston property that was gonna be developed as a tennis club, and so, I think that’s on twenty acres there abouts, and twenty acres? Yeah, must be twenty acres, ten acres on each side of Bear Creek. So, they would have had indoor facilities on both sides of the creek with a bridge going across and a huge parking lot, and it was surrounded by our five residential homes, or, um, and so, when the neighbors got wind of that, you know, they put together, a, uh, uh, a group and invited Watertenders and I think we got, we did get involved and we just said, “no, this is all wrong,” and, uh, and, uh, the developers said, “well, no, this is not a tennis club, it’s a tennis park.” And so, I said, “okay, it’s a park, so any, anybody can come and use it?” “Well, no you have to join.” I said, “well then it’s a club. It’s not a park, because parks around here are free. You don’t pay to get in to a, a little park.” “No, you have to pay. There’ll be a fee.” And, and so anyways, we just, we just, uh, protested that, and said it’s just, it’s so wrong in so many ways, it’s a commercial development in the middle of a residential neighborhood, and [?] with the protesting that went on and and, uh, all the letter writing, and the SEPA reviews, uh, the County, which I think was ready to approve it, said, “No, we’ve got too many people against this,” and it was shot down and fortunately the county actually came in at a later date and purchased the property, and now it’s, um, a really beautiful piece of property that’s, uh, an open space, so, it’s, it’s a really a lovely little spot back there.
GS: Well, it’s nice to end on a happy story.
DS: Yeah, that was a good story. Yeah.
GS: Now you would call that a success story.
DS: That was a success story. It’s really quite beautiful down there.
GS: Great. Well, thanks, Dick.
DS: Well, you’re welcome.
